ANV update due Thurs Oct 19th

The ANV Update is set to happen tomorrow, Thurs 19th October, between aprox 4 and 10pm GMT. The update process will be:

1 – Disable AKA update form (Done)

2 – Announce the update is imminent (Happening right here)

3 – Process any pending AKA updates in the editor queue

4 – Backup database

5 – Do a test conversion of AKA -> ANV and check (Masters At Work will be one)

6 – Do the full conversion

7a – Deploy new release form with ANV option
7b – Guidelines / Final launch announcement

8 – Remove all AKA display logic from Discogs code (to be done later, depending when Kevin is happy with everything)

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72 Comments
  • Nov 8,2006 at 23:12

    [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/Isol%C3%A9e?anv=Isolee]Isolee[/url] has been made an ANV, not merged (as there is an important distinction), and [a=Isolee] incorrectly added later. That one release should be updated to show [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/Isol%C3%A9e?anv=Isolee]Isolee[/url] as an ANV of [a=Isolée], not [a=Isolee], the seperate artist in the database (note the difference between where the links go).

  • Nov 8,2006 at 18:38

    There are a few “unreachable” releases; they exist and show up in search, but are not displayed on the artists’ page since the update. For instance, [a=Isolée] (note the accent) has been merged with [a=Isolee], and now all releases under [a=Isolée] are not visible on artists page; e.g. [r=6439].

    I would go and update the artist name manually, but I cannot track down all releases through search alone. Annoying.

  • Nov 6,2006 at 12:02

    [quote=LordBabyBlue]discogs queue has grown to 30.00 entries and will get longer every day with this ‘great’ new feature[/quote]
    it’s because loads of releases already in the system now “need” to be updated… just imagine what would have happened if it was introduced, say, 1 year later… xx0.000s more edits…

    ANV is a great option, if you know how to use it & if you want to use it. For “new” Discogs users, it can be hell! and for mods, it can be a pain to explain

    Perhaps a simple “how to use ANV” could be added (with some images?). i.e.: in ANV there are 2 Artist fields, which field should be used for what?

    If you’ve used it a couple of times, it’s easy! But if you’re new, it can be confusing, and ANV is not the only thing…

  • Nov 4,2006 at 02:18

    anv = a nice vision

    but it brought us chaos, confusion and will bring doom to all of us.
    discogs queue has grown to 30.00 entries and will get longer every day with this ‘great’ new feature, imho…

  • cul
    Nov 2,2006 at 10:47

    [quote=nik]Yeh I do understand your point. I am sure there will be other examples like that as well. It is worth bearing in mind that, in this situation, putting that ANV under one or other main artist name is probably not going to be ‘mission critical’ to how the database operates.

    In this case, I choose it to go under ‘Upsetter, The’ since the ‘Scratch’ part was in quotes (i.e. a nickname).

    Let us know if there are any other examples and we will try to figure it out![/quote]

    another example is [a=mendo] he has D.M.O, David Mendo Ortega, David Ortega, DJ Mendo as alias’s atm.

    I’m updating to group Mendo, DJ Mendo, and Menda together as ANV.
    and i am grouping David Ortega, David Mendo Ortega, and D.M.O together as ANV.

    tbh i think they should all be one ANV as they all contain elements of each other. that can be changed later i suppose.

  • Nov 1,2006 at 23:04

    [quote=Iron_Fist]Christophe Boin ANV of Cristophe Boin is entered as Christophe Boin on this release not as an ANV. But it still appears on Cristophe Boin’s page.[/quote]
    As I understand it, to get an ANV linked as an ANV, it has to be set as an ANV on the release. So [a=Christophe Boin] is linked instead of [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/Cristophe+Boin?anv=Christophe+Boin]Christophe Boin[/url] because “Christophe Boin” is in the artist box, instead of the ANV box where it should be.

    ANV’s can’t be set to link automatically from the artist box, I don’t think. It’ll link to a seperate artist entry with the same name as the ANV, as in the example you posted. From the [url=http://help.discogs.com/wiki/SubmissionGuidelinesArtist]ANV Guidlines[/url]:
    “The existing Artist Name HAS to be entered as is done presently as well (the ANV cannot exist on its own).”

  • Nov 1,2006 at 15:43

    [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/Cristophe+Boin?anv=Christophe+Boin]Christophe Boin[/url] ANV of [a=Cristophe Boin] is [url=http://www.discogs.com/release/818801]entered as Christophe Boin on this release[/url] not as an ANV. But it still appears on [a=Cristophe Boin]’s page. I did not read if this was mentionned on this thread or the other thread before, sorry if I’m repeating.

  • Nov 1,2006 at 06:16

    This could/should be the problem: http://help.discogs.com/ticket/2133

  • cul
    Nov 1,2006 at 05:23

    is there a reason no N.B Collins name variation appears on the Bernard Collins page after this submission:

    http://www.discogs.com/subs/view/2306484 (the N.B. link works but doesnt have its own page)

    further more the B. Collins name variation page shows production credits when they should be on the N.B. Collins page (that isnt there)

    am i missing something?

  • Oct 30,2006 at 02:18

    cool feature.

    good qwertyscovery lads.

  • Oct 29,2006 at 11:56

    [r=819500]
    Here, I’m subbing a release that features A. Sanchez, an abbreviation of Alexander Sanchez. Neither name variation is in the DB at the mo. Can I sub as an ANV without Alexander Sanchez being in the DB already?

  • Oct 28,2006 at 19:16

    thanks md.

    i suspect the next 10,000 times that paragraph’ll need pointing to would be in the update queues.

  • md
    Oct 28,2006 at 16:08

    Kino, check the bottom here: http://help.discogs.com/wiki/NewFeatureANV

    Obviously the timescales are out but it’s planned.

  • Oct 28,2006 at 14:13

    is there, or will there, be a function where ANV can be set as primary, with what was primary becoming an ANV of it.

  • nik
    Oct 24,2006 at 12:50

    Yeh I do understand your point. I am sure there will be other examples like that as well. It is worth bearing in mind that, in this situation, putting that ANV under one or other main artist name is probably not going to be ‘mission critical’ to how the database operates.

    In this case, I choose it to go under ‘Upsetter, The’ since the ‘Scratch’ part was in quotes (i.e. a nickname).

    Let us know if there are any other examples and we will try to figure it out!

  • cul
    Oct 24,2006 at 11:30

    That sounds like a decent option. i’m just thinking that people are going to be querying why [a=”scratch” the upsetter] is grouped with the Upsetter names rather than the Scratch names.

    im sure there are other similar examples in the DB.

    but i dont disagree with the proposed solution.

  • nik
    Oct 24,2006 at 11:03

    Yeh, I agree with md. I don’t think there is any harm in doing it like this.

    Lee Perry ANV Lee “King” Perry ANV Lee “Scratch” Perry

    Upsetter, The ANV “Scratch” The Upsetter ANV Mighty Upsetter

    And make ‘Lee Perry’ and ‘Upsetter, The’ aliases.

  • md
    Oct 24,2006 at 09:08

    My initial view is that 1 & 2 are ANVs of eachother, not of 3, 4 & 5.

    3, 4 & 5 all have enough of a common theme (Upsetter) and can be ANVs of eachother. Don’t know enough about them and don’t have time to check right now which is the most common. Just looking at the above first glance suggests 4 being the main and 3 and 5 ANVs.

  • cul
    Oct 24,2006 at 08:49

    these are some thoughts/Qs about the ANV i posed in adding forum:

    sometimes its going to be necessary to ANV quite dissimilar names as long as there is a common link between them imo. classic example being Lee Perry. imo all the following alias’s should be ANVs:

    Lee Perry
    1. Lee “King” Perry
    2. Lee “Scratch” Perry
    3. “Scratch” The Upsetter
    4. Upsetter, The
    5. Mighty Upsetter

    now ‘Mighty Upsetter’ is very different to Lee Perry, but otherwise where do you put “Scratch the Upsetter”? With Lee Scratch? or The Upsetter?

    These names were all used to mean the same bloke, its not like theyre different project names or anything imo.

    Any thoughts?

  • nik
    Oct 23,2006 at 09:50

    I will send out an email tomorrow.

    ANV’s should not be used for completely different names. Aliases must be used in these cases.

  • Oct 23,2006 at 08:23

    [quote=md]because right now site-wide decisions are being made off the back of discussions involving a handful of people[/quote]
    Every democracy runs off the back of apathy. Discogs policy decisions are in no way democratic (closer to authoritarian maybe), but apathy still applies.

    Most people don’t care about decisions until it affects them in some way and by that time they get what they deserve.

  • md
    Oct 23,2006 at 02:37

    [quote=dj_purity_control]Keep hoping… no mail was sent. [/quote]
    A mail would be useful to confirm the go-live moment, but I worry that there might be mods that aren’t fully aware both that ANV has been on its way for months, and what it is to be used for. Where the hell have these people been? That there are apparently mods that have little to no engagement in the forums, let alone the guidelines (and we see it, the odd thread popping up from someone you didn’t know was a mod asking “how do we do this really simple thing that we’ve already been doing every day for years?”) is a real cause for concern. I’ve said it before and no doubt I’ll say it again, we need mods to be engaged in discussion of all major topics, not least new rules and features, because right now site-wide decisions are being made off the back of discussions involving a handful of people.

  • Oct 22,2006 at 19:26

    Well, this mod is being stubborn and is going to N-vote [url=http://www.discogs.com/subs/view/2272085]my correction of his incorrect ANV edits[/url]. Lovely

  • Oct 22,2006 at 04:27

    I can’t understand why mods able to vote on their own submissions… In some cases it’s OK,but in the above example it is definitely not.

  • Oct 22,2006 at 04:01

    Agree!
    Many people are confusing the two — ANV’s rather than ALIAS’s, and vice-versa.

    I do hope it is standard practice for the mods to ALL get sent an email when new things like this are implemented ?!
    I actually think these emails should be sent out to all users as well, cause they are MAJOR site developments.

    Another idea would be if these things were posted on the front of the home page.
    At the moment if you do not read or use the forums on here very often, you simply do not get to know about these changes, so miscomprehension can often result. As has happened with this update…

    It is a nice idea! (Though of course everyone is gonna have to go through their whole collection updating all these slight/not so slight name variations. NOT a fun job, for those who can be bothered …aagh!)

    [i]Next stop, catalogue# variations [b]please[/b] — CNV (Catalogue Number Variation)[/i] !!

  • Oct 21,2006 at 20:35

    ANV is already getting used wrong. Look at [url=http://www.discogs.com/subs/view/2265992]this release[/url]. Looks like this person tried to put ANV’s for track 7 & 8 when these should have been aliases. And 2 mods approved it!!!

    Unless I am wrong, but I thought it was a variation in the way a release used a person’s name that you used ANV, and in no way should The Good Brotha Eddy be an ANV of Aceyalone!!!

    There is some serious damage being done if this is the case, as people are going crazy with ANV updates right now (hopefully mostly correct ones like I am doing) and if they are doing it with aliases, Discogs is going to get seriously F’d up.

  • Oct 20,2006 at 07:35

    [quote=psychonausea]Discogs didn’t differentiate on accents back then & the moderators must have missed the minor error.[/quote]

    Yes it did, which was why I was trying to update Dirty Purple before the ANV change, because neither the Andre Tanneberger, nor the Andre Tietze linked up with the correct artist because of missing accent marks.

  • Oct 20,2006 at 07:33

    How do you explain the accent mark Tietze page showing Dirty Purple as a release? I know it didn’t do it before ANV because I was updating it. How did ANV know for sure that it wasn’t a different Andre Tietze that it on the Dirty Purple CD, and how many other accented artists now got linked to their non accented counterpart, some of which may in fact be different people?

  • Oct 20,2006 at 06:31

    ^^

    That’s not an ANV bug because no ANV’s have been set yet.

    Before you post, check the page history links & do some thinking:
    On [url=http://www.discogs.com/subs/view/644308]05 Jan 05[/url] André Tietze was edited to Subman. That should have been done with a rename instead of a standard edit. The artist page for Tietze was left behind as a ghost artist.
    On [url=http://www.discogs.com/subs/view/1324584]07 Jan 05[/url] a new release with Andre Tietze was added. Discogs didn’t differentiate on accents back then & the moderators must have missed the minor error.

  • Oct 20,2006 at 06:24

    ^
    This is not the only case as if you look at [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/André+Tanneberger]André Tanneberger[/url], we also see Dirty Purple under his production credits. If you click on it, it takes you to Dirty Purple, again without an accent mark, but if you click on his name from the Dirty Purple page, it brings you to a new artist page created for Tanneberger without the accent, and with no current releases!

    I had an update in, before the ANV changeover, to correct both artist names on the Dirty Purple page, because previously, the links on Dirty Purple brought them to pages that did not exist. It seems the ANV has created new pages for all previous bad links?

  • Oct 20,2006 at 06:18

    ANV BUG ALERT!

    Click on [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/André+Tietze]André Tietze[/url].

    His listing brings up one release that he appears on: [url=http://www.discogs.com/release/541810]Dirty Purple[/url].

    Clicking on the release, you find that he’s listed on there [i]without[/i] the accent mark, and without an ANV asterix.

    Now, if you click on his name through that release, it doesn’t go back to the accented name you just clicked on, but a [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/Andre+Tietze]new artist page[/url] [i]without[/i] the accent mark!

    Even stranger is that Dirty Purple is not even listed under that name, there’s a different pending release!! Oh no! What’s going on here?

  • Oct 20,2006 at 04:31

    OK.

    I also noticed that some names converted to ANVs were not propagated to change requests:-
    e.g. [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/Russell+Kearney?anv=Russel+Kearney]Russel Kearney[/url] on [url=http://www.discogs.com/subs/view/2262952]this[/url].
    but [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/Andrew+Williams?anv=Andy+Williams+(3)]Andy Williams (3)[/url] on [url=http://www.discogs.com/subs/view/2213000]this[/url] seems to have been converted.

    Also I suppose [b]Andy Williams (3)[/b] can eventually be changed to [b]Andy Williams[/b] as it’s an ANV of [a=Andrew Williams]. Would look confusing in searches though, unless the Primary Artist Name is also shown in the results.

  • md
    Oct 20,2006 at 03:49

    A bit of a pain until the full artist conversion feature appears. I would leave Nicole (3) as is as there’s tons of releases, but the Nicole McCloud can be ANVd via the 3 release pages easily enough.

  • Oct 20,2006 at 03:15

    [quote=helix]If it is 2., is it ok to set Nicole McCloud (with only a few entries) as an ANV on one of the above named aliases or should they all three be made aliases until 2. is implemented?[/quote]

    What about this. ANV or [url=http://www.discogs.com/subs/view/2211370]alias[/url]?

  • md
    Oct 20,2006 at 02:00

    [quote=helix]Looks good.

    nik, I have a question about converting aliases to ANVs.

    Example:-
    Nicole J McCloud and Nicole (3)

    Which of these is the correct way to do things now:-

    1. Convert Nicole (3) to ANV by updating each release on that alias?

    2. Alternatively, should not be attempted yet for aliases with lots of releases until Stage 2:-

    * There should be a ‘Convert to Artist Name Variation’ function for any Artist Name.

    If it is 2., is it ok to set Nicole McCloud (with only a few entries) as an ANV on one of the above named aliases or should they all three be made aliases until 2. is implemented?[/quote]
    This has already been flagged and the solution will be number 2. It will probably work in a similar way to merges with editors voting on them.

  • Oct 20,2006 at 01:12

    [quote=Iron_Fist]nik I have a little “bug” report.

    Artists that were once AKAs are now empty entries. Exemples :

    Bootsy Collins ANV Bootsy –> when using search tool

    Michael Sarsfield ANV Mike Sarsfield –> when using search tool

    Dean Frazer ANV Dean Fraser –> when using search tool

    …just to enumerate a few.[/quote]

    That is no bug and working fine.
    Bootsy for example is now [url=http://www.discogs.com/artist/Bootsy+Collins?anv=Bootsy]here[/url] folded into an ANV. Same for all the others.

    The empty artist pages will be removed soon I think.

  • Oct 19,2006 at 21:26

    It’s annoying because there is no rhyme or reason. One artist you check has his real name used as the primary, and all stage names or aliases linked to it. And other artists do not have their real name as the primary, even when it previously had a release page, and it’s using an alias/stage name as primary. I just don’t get who or what is choosing. Is is random/automatic with the new changeover?

  • Oct 19,2006 at 21:14

    [quote=Schika]The direct links to the artist pages doesn’t work anymore.
    Pascal F.E.O.S. (currently main) vs. Pascal FEOS (ANV) … :/[/quote]

    Yah, what’s up with this. His primary name needs to be without the periods!!! ARGH! How is the ANV automatically set up to choose which alias or AKA should be the main one, because I’m sure there are more errors than just this (haven’t even begun to check yet though).

  • Oct 19,2006 at 21:10

    Hallelujah!

  • Oct 19,2006 at 20:19

    nevermind what i said before…
    i have understood it

    i successfully spammed this thread
    :(

  • Oct 19,2006 at 19:51

    no mistake, it actually is a bug.
    because unless you have submitted the link doesn`t work if you edit a pending

  • Oct 19,2006 at 19:49

    ^^lol, I almost made the same mistake as you but I submitted before posting here.

  • Oct 19,2006 at 19:42

    sorry, once the submission has been submitted the link works again.

  • Oct 19,2006 at 19:40

    the link from the preview doesn’t work correctly if you edit an release,
    say you have tim dudfield on the release, who is a new artist, and you want to change it to an ANV of tim “dawg” dudfield,
    even though there are releases on the second artists page the link will prompt you with an empty artist page.

  • Oct 19,2006 at 18:58

    From the rules:

    [i]* Artist Name Variations (ANV’s) should be used for variations in an artist name such as changes to nicknames, [b]language based differences[/b], abbreviations, different initials etc.[/i]

    doesn goes in line with:

    [i]* Typography and punctuation – ANV’s can be entered to reflect what is on the release. Variations in punctuation, spelling etc are allowed, providing they exist on the release. Variations in accents are allowed. [b]However, using Cyrillic and other such Unicode fonts[/b] to reflect graphic design decisions such as reverse letters [b]should not be done[/b].[/i]

    for example:

    [a=EU] (western artist name) vs. [a=Ёлочные Игрушки] (origin name)
    [a=Ken Ishii] (latin written name) vs. [a=ケン イシイ] (origin name)

  • Oct 19,2006 at 18:44

    The direct links to the artist pages doesn’t work anymore.
    [a=Pascal F.E.O.S.] (currently main) vs. [a=Pascal FEOS] (ANV) … :/

  • Oct 19,2006 at 18:42

    [r=805951]

  • Oct 19,2006 at 17:49

    [r=674415]

  • Oct 19,2006 at 17:38

    anyone got an example of a release etc with ANV in place they can show me please? :)

  • Oct 19,2006 at 17:24

    Just spotted that too –
    [a=Jack Lukeman] ANV [a=Jack L]

  • Oct 19,2006 at 16:48

    [u=nik] I have a little “bug” report.

    Artists that were once AKAs are now empty entries. Exemples :

    [a=Bootsy Collins] ANV [a=Bootsy] –> [url=http://www.discogs.com/search?type=all&q=bootsy]when using search tool[/url]

    [a=Michael Sarsfield] ANV [a=Mike Sarsfield] –> [url=http://www.discogs.com/search?type=all&q=mike+sarsfield]when using search tool[/url]

    [a=Dean Frazer] ANV [a=Dean Fraser] –> [url=http://www.discogs.com/search?type=all&q=dean+fraser]when using search tool[/url]

    …just to enumerate a few.

  • Oct 19,2006 at 15:44

    Looks good.

    [u=nik], I have a question about converting aliases to ANVs.

    Example:-
    [a=Nicole J McCloud] and [a=Nicole (3)]

    Which of these is the correct way to do things now:-

    1. Convert [a=Nicole (3)] to ANV by updating each release on that alias?

    2. Alternatively, should not be attempted yet for aliases with lots of releases until [url=http://help.discogs.com/wiki/NewFeatureANV]Stage 2[/url]:-

    [i]* There should be a ‘Convert to Artist Name Variation’ function for any Artist Name.[/i]

    If it is 2., is it ok to set [a=Nicole McCloud] (with only a few entries) as an ANV on one of the above named aliases or should they all three be made aliases until 2. is implemented?

  • Oct 19,2006 at 15:43

    Thanks [u=nik] and [u=teo] for the hard work !!! This probably was one craaazy job. It’ll also be one crazy job for moderators when the “Update Release” will be enabled again :O

  • Oct 19,2006 at 14:52

    Hurrah, very good and makes things much easier. Shame I spent an eternal age making a few updates to as things appeared on the release just last week! ANVs make things a lot simpler and they way it’s done is easy to get used to – good stuff!

  • Oct 19,2006 at 14:40

    ^^^^^^^^^^fixed, already, thanks

  • Oct 19,2006 at 14:28

    some artist entries seem to have been lost in the process:

    see: http://www.discogs.com/release/45126

    and click [a=François K] or, scarier still [a=Matthias “Matty” Heilbronn]

    wtf?

  • Oct 19,2006 at 14:23

    SWEET !
    especially, that it’s linked to the main artist page automatically!
    but does it mean we have to cancel ALL rash pending updates which already contain name variations & re-do it,
    because of the lack of the existing artist name ?
    *shiver*

  • nik
    Oct 19,2006 at 13:24

    [quote=helix]Is this change big enough to warrant Discogs v3.0?[/quote]

    No, but it’s enough to warrant everyone having a nice cool [insert beverage of choise] tonight!

  • nik
    Oct 19,2006 at 13:22

    Ok folks, this update is [b]done[/b].

    I have added the ANV guidelines to the Submission Guidelines at http://help.discogs.com/wiki/SubmissionGuidelinesArtist

    Please take extra care to start with on this feature, use the mod notes to explain why you are using an ANV, and be cool with the mods and the editors until everyone gets used to this feature.

  • Oct 19,2006 at 07:05

    Good luck.

    Is this change big enough to warrant Discogs v3.0?

  • Oct 19,2006 at 06:54

    i keep my fingers crossed.

  • nik
    Oct 19,2006 at 06:41

    [quote=vargind]is the site going to be down at all?[/quote]

    No, the site stays open.

  • Oct 19,2006 at 06:16

    YAY!
    Finally!
    Let me get that bottle of champagne! ;)

    cheers! :p :))

  • Oct 19,2006 at 01:31

    except the A in ANV = Artist

  • Oct 19,2006 at 00:08

    ANV

    Simplistic explanation

    ANV = Any Name Variation
    but really means this is how that person (linked Artist) is actually credited

    so an Example would be
    The Fall where MES is credited with Vocals ie Mark E. Smith

    Primary Artist = Mark E. Smith
    ANV = MES
    MES will displayed but will link to Mark E. Smith without creating a new artist

    Or another
    David Bowie
    Written by D. Bowie

    so Primary artist David Bowie [ANV = D. Bowie]

    heck i hope i am close enough

  • Oct 18,2006 at 23:51

    nice

    question: will ANV become available to pendings already in the queue?

  • Oct 18,2006 at 22:36

    lovely!

  • Oct 18,2006 at 21:26

    what is “ANV”?

  • Oct 18,2006 at 21:16

    Great news!
    Hope the test conversion works out well.

  • Oct 18,2006 at 15:44

    This is great news! o/

  • Oct 18,2006 at 15:44

    This is great news! o/

  • Oct 18,2006 at 15:29

    so, is the site going to be down at all?

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