Just added HD DVD, HD DVD-R, and Blu-ray to the format drop downs.
…sticking to vinyl… (had to but in! – Sorry:)
[quote=kaizer_cirque]Besides all this^^, which is chinese to me…[/quote]
Try [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_disc]wikipedia[/url], if you really MUST want to know about these formats. Though it is rather tedius, it does explain & list the formats and their histories … ?!
Essentially my point was a simple one:
(a) group similar optical formats together (ie: [i]all[/i] the DVD formats listed together, [i]all[/i] the HD DVD, [i]all[/i] the Blu-ray Disc, etc.)
(b) correct the spellings, to make them as accurate as the manufacturing commitees who set the spellings (eg. [b]CDr[/b] update to [b]CD-R[/b], etc.)
Me too absolutely support adding a “Reissue” tag to format dropdown menu; necessary for the tons of reissues which are not exactly repressings.
^^Yes please add [b]Reissue[/b] !!!! It is really necessary !!
While you’re at it could you add [b]Karaoke[/b] to the description field ?
Sorry meant, ‘eg. say I own a BD-R[u]E[/u] release…’
The list above was trying to get all (well, [i]most[/i]) of the possible optical formats I found either already used on Discogs in some way or not used here yet. Rather than MUST HAVE list of choices for users.
Actually what I was trying to say is, that these formats could be updated in their spellings.
On reflection, I think you are probably right, in that TOO MUCH definition on recordable types is largely pointless.
The spellings/groupings could be as follows:
[b]DVD±R/RW[/b] or [b]DVD±R/DVD±RW[/b]
(Or perhaps you could add the RAM format to the other recordable types, like: [b]DVD±R/RW/RAM[/b] or [b]DVD±R/DVD±RW/DVD-RAM[/b] ?)
[u]HD DVD formats[/u]
[b]HD DVD-R/RW[/b] or [b]HD DVD-R/HD DVD-RW[/b]
(Or perhaps you could add the RAM format to the other recordable types, like: [b]HD DVD-R/RW/RAM[/b] or [b]HD DVD-R/HD DVD-RW/HD DVD-RAM[/b] ?)
[u]Blu-ray Disc formats[/u]
[b]BD-R/RE[/b] or [b]BD-R/BD-RE[/b]
[i](I’ll leave the CD/varients for you, as I’m not entirely sure on the groupings for those?!)[/i]
NOTE: it’s only the DVD format where a simple use of the “±” symbol keeps them together, and I never recommended they be separated.
These groupings seem a logical method to clear these into a single format line using the correct spellings as defined by the various manufacturers. Those companies that spell them like “CDr” or “DVDrw” usually do so as a design choice for packaging, rather than it being the correct spelling.
Also, my suggestion was to group them in the drop menus under each main optical format (with a line break after each set), which would aid users finding their specific choice on the list amoungst the individual optical format they might be searching for.
eg. say I own a BD-RW release.
I can simply scroll down to the list entitled [u]Blu-ray Disc formats[/u] and then find and select the “BD-R/RE” option.
This would also clear-up this issue in the process:
[quote=nik]I would suspect that only about 5% or less of users would know what the heck “BR” is, as it is a brand new format [/quote]
Anyone else have an angle or view on this ?
Fair enough, although I’d be careful about saying that Blu-ray is going the same way as Betamax. It’s got 70% of sales of all Hi-Def discs so far.
[quote=paultrautrim]combine them with a slash like CD-R/CD-RW or DVD±R/DVD±RW. While it may look a little more confusing to some, I think it makes more sense than CDr or DVDr.[/quote]
RW technology is, at best, seriously niche for pre-recorded audio. I would be surprised if we found more than a handful of examples in the database that are on a RW format.
[quote=paultrautrim]Better yet, change Blu-Ray-R to BD-R/BD-RE. [/quote]
I would suspect that only about 5% or less of users would know what the heck “BR” is, as it is a brand new format (and destined to go the way of Betamax anyhow :-)
We can change things about later if needed. I don’t think we need to get too into semantics for just now.
Ah, can’t edit. Better yet, change Blu-Ray-R to BD-R/BD-RE.
If it doesn’t matter whether it’s R or RW, combine them with a slash like CD-R/CD-RW or DVD±R/DVD±RW. While it may look a little more confusing to some, I think it makes more sense than CDr or DVDr. Blu-Ray-R should be changed to BD-R.
It is very unlikely that a DVD being a + or – will affect playback. Additionally, it is another layer of complexity and confusion for submitters, as some DVDr will not say what sub-format they are. As noted before, it is at the same level as marking which cassettes are chrome, Dolby B etc etc. If the submitter desires to point this out, they can in the free text field or the notes.
[quote=nik]that is too much, we don’t need to know if a DVDr is + or -, or if we do, we can list that in the notes.[/quote]
What if the items are for sale on Marketplace: if you’ve only got a + player and the disc is – then surely it would be better, for all parties, if it was clearly marked in Format drop-downs?
To mark it in notes would not be compulsory.
jimthing – that is too much, we don’t need to know if a DVDr is + or -, or if we do, we can list that in the notes. Scoz is right, we don’t list Chrome or Ferric variations on cassettes, for example. The optical formats are plenty enough complicated and numerous without adding in distinctions between writeable and re-writeable (why the heck would any of us care about this, this is a database of pre-recorded audio, we are not interested in ‘taping over’ our DVDs!)
The current format system was [url=http://help.discogs.com/wiki/SubmissionGuidelinesFormat-NEW]carefully worked out[/url] to ensure we didn’t drown in a sea of CD-RW AVCD SACD. Moving items such as VCD to the format list instead of the description list would mean we would have to have VCDr etc as well, making the list twice as long and a nightmare to use.
Actually [u=Scoz], it CAN sometimes matter on playback just which version “+” or “-” you have in your hands.
Some machines have restrictions on which types they will accept for record/playback.
This however, is not a major issue most of the time and is only relevent in the DVD±R/RW format dispute between manufacturers (hence why both types exist!), so my preference would be to go for the method [u=paultrautrim] suggested, using the “±” for both.
Add to this some spliting into groups on the format drop-menu, and it would make it clearer. Like this:
CD (aka CD-ROM = prerecorded commercial releases)
DVD (aka DVD-ROM = prerecorded commercial releases)
DVD±R [i](“±” as both exist)[/i]
DVD±RW [i](“±” as both exist)[/i]
[u]HD DVD formats[/u]
HD DVD (aka HD DVD-ROM = prerecorded commercial releases)
[u]Blu-ray Disc formats[/u]
BD (aka BD-ROM = prerecorded commercial releases)
HD DVD source: http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11631#iib .
Blu-ray Disc source: http://www.emedialive.com/articles/readarticle.aspx?articleid=11397#iib
(note: forget adding another BD-ROM format known as “BD-9”, set-aside for lower ‘budget’ mass-production releases. Unlikely to ever be used due to decreasing normal BD-ROM production costs, as demand for product on them increases so per unit price will go down).
I’m under the impression from reading-up on this, that these are all the formats for HD DVD and BD for the forseeable future perhaps forever. As no other types are needed after [i]write-once[/i] & [i]re-write[/i] type discs have been issued, and due to the battles between the two groups of companies (Toshiba/Microsoft & friends backing HD DVD, Sony & many more friends backing BD), there was no technical reason thus no commercial reason for a “+” vs. “-” type dispute on either format.
I suggest offering ALL these formats, as they have all be sold as product releases. And 99% of the time the format is clearly printed/made available for identification on the product users may be adding, as the producers of the product know they have to identify to their customers which it is, don’t they…
Ok, I have added Blu-ray-R.
I have added WAV.
I have added ‘Multichannel’ for any surround type, and removed the Dolby encoding specific formats (5.1, 6.1, 7.1). I will get Kevin to update the existing entries using these tags, to move them to the free text field, and change the tag to Multichannel.
I have removed the DVD-9, DVD-10, and DVD-18 formats, and will get Kevin to move any existing tags to the free text section.
I have added an “All Media” format, to be used when there are multiple types of media for one release, and we need to tag them all with a description, for example ‘Promo’. This tag is not needed when ‘Box Set’ is used, as the descriptions can be added to the ‘Box Set’ format in this instance.
If we’re sticking with *r, then why don’t we use HD DVDr for consistency? And we still need a recordable Blu-ray format.
if we are going to micro manage each format why don’t we add ferric and chrome dioxide to the cassette options, or we be sensible and realise
CDr = Recordable CD of any type (including rewriteables)
DVDr = Recordable DVD of any type (+ , -, RAM, +RW, -RW)
Future-Format-Yet-To-Be-Inventedr = Recordable version of Future-Format-Yet-To-Be-Invented
in general the only point where the +-yness of a DVD is in the writing stage after that it makes near as dammit no difference. DVD-RAMs are slightly different as they are mostly used for data.
jimthing has it mostly right. CDs don’t have the + variety, only CD-R and CD-RW. DVDs have both; we can use the ± symbol to combine them if necessary. Blu-ray discs have BD-R and BD-RE (RE means the same thing as RW). HD DVDs (no hyphen) currently only have HD DVD-R.
Of course those HD-DVD’s & BD’s might nor have R or RW versions just yet.
I just don’t know, and really can’t be bothered to wikipedia/google for the answers, so you decide folks…
Formats to alter, me thinks:
[b]Cdr[/b] –> [b]CD-R[/b] ([b]CD+R[/b] –> does this also exist?)
[b]DVDr[/b] –> [b]DVD-R[/b] ([b]DVD+R[/b] –> THIS DOES EXIST, my Sony DVD recorder takes both types!)
New formats missing:
[b]CD-RW[/b] ([b]CD+RW[/b] –> does this also exist?)
[b]DVD-RW[/b] ([b]DVD+RW[/b] –> does this also exist?)
[b]HD DVD[/b] (or perhaps [b]HD-DVD[/b] ?)
[b]HD DVD-R[/b] (or perhaps [b]HD-DVD-R[/b] ?)
[b]Blu-Ray[/b] (or perhaps simply [b]BD[/b] ?)
[b]Blu-Ray-R[/b] (or perhaps [b]BD-R[/b]? Does [b]BD+R[/b] versions exist in this format?)
[b]Blu-Ray-RW[/b] (or perhaps [b]BD-RW[/b]? Does [b]BD+RW[/b] versions exist in this format?)
(some all of these have their “+” version perhaps… could perhaps double-up on them instead to save on complication: eg. [b]CD-RW/CD+RW[/b] or [b]DVD-R/DVD+R[/b] instead ??)
Bloody formats, hey! Drive you to drink.
As soon as people have gotten what they want, they want more. Thanks for the new formats, nik.
And i still wonder if we get a Multichannel option for SACDs or another solution to handle multichannel-formats.
i’m tired to find and correct such funny things as SACDs tagged with Dolby formats, which is complete rubbish…
best would be to have it separated in format and resolution, imho.
so for example if you choose multichannel-capable formats such as DVD or SACD your next dropdown-choice would be Dolby/DTS/Multichannel and then you could seperately enter resolution in the free text field like 4.1/5.1/etc as they don’t need more than the displayed 3 letters?
I originally posted this in the Development thread, but it might get seen more here so I’ll ask again. What about BD-Rs? And shouldn’t CDr and DVDr be changed to CD-R and DVD-R? Thanks.
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